.lzma file extension???

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.lzma file extension???

Patrick Galbraith
Hi all,

I'm curious - what is the reason for using .lzma file extension for msys
packages? Why not use something that standard gnu tools can deal with
such as gzip or zip?

Thanks!

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Re: .lzma file extension???

lrn-2
Patrick Galbraith wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm curious - what is the reason for using .lzma file extension for msys
> packages? Why not use something that standard gnu tools can deal with
> such as gzip or zip?
>
> Thanks!
>
>  
http://www.mingw.org/PackageIdentificationHOWTO , at the bottom

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Patrick Galbraith
Thanks! I didn't realize this was so prevalent for compression. Seems not only mingw uses it.

LRN wrote:
Patrick Galbraith wrote:
  
Hi all,

I'm curious - what is the reason for using .lzma file extension for msys 
packages? Why not use something that standard gnu tools can deal with 
such as gzip or zip?

Thanks!

  
    
http://www.mingw.org/PackageIdentificationHOWTO , at the bottom

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Erwin Waterlander
In reply to this post by lrn-2
Op 11/10/2009 02:55 AM, LRN schreef:

> Patrick Galbraith wrote:
>  
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm curious - what is the reason for using .lzma file extension for msys
>> packages? Why not use something that standard gnu tools can deal with
>> such as gzip or zip?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>  
>>    
> http://www.mingw.org/PackageIdentificationHOWTO , at the bottom
>
>  
Today even .zip files can use bzip2 and lzma compression. For lzma you
need WinZip >= 12. Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com) supports
also .zip files with bzip2 or lzma compression, so you can browse these
packages as a normal file system. There is also a TC plugin for .bz2
files. There is unfortunately no plugin for .lzma files yet.

Erwin


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Re: .lzma file extension???

Chris Sutcliffe-2
> Today even .zip files can use bzip2 and lzma compression. For lzma you
> need WinZip >= 12. Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com) supports
> also .zip files with bzip2 or lzma compression, so you can browse these
> packages as a normal file system. There is also a TC plugin for .bz2
> files. There is unfortunately no plugin for .lzma files yet.

7-zip also does a nice job of handling them.

Chris

--
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http://emergedesktop.org

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Patrick Galbraith
Chris,

I tried with winzip but it complained that the .lzma files (from sourceforge) where corrupt. (see http://img.skitch.com/20091110-cqpiwnai6g5ga5ib95isgtr9s4.jpg)

But on Linux, no problem decompressing this on Linux:

patg@ishvara:~$ lzma -d automake-1.11-1-msys-1.0.11-bin.tar.lzma
patg@ishvara:~$ ls automake-1.11-1-msys-1.0.11-bin.tar
automake-1.11-1-msys-1.0.11-bin.tar

So, the one thing I haven't figured out is what MinGW Ports is and how to use it. Is it like Darwin Ports where you can specify a package to install, the package is then fetched and then installed?

Also, do folks have tools such as autoconf, libtool, etc running on Mingw? I tried compiling libtool from gnu.org and had no luck. Are the tools as packaged on the mingw site modified for cross compiling?

Thanks!

Patrick




Chris Sutcliffe wrote:
Today even .zip files can use bzip2 and lzma compression. For lzma you
need WinZip >= 12. Total Commander (http://www.ghisler.com) supports
also .zip files with bzip2 or lzma compression, so you can browse these
packages as a normal file system. There is also a TC plugin for .bz2
files. There is unfortunately no plugin for .lzma files yet.
    

7-zip also does a nice job of handling them.

Chris

  


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Re: .lzma file extension???

Vincent Torri


On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Patrick Galbraith wrote:

> I tried with winzip but it complained that the .lzma files (from sourceforge) where corrupt. (see
> http://img.skitch.com/20091110-cqpiwnai6g5ga5ib95isgtr9s4.jpg)

forget about winzip, use 7zip.

Vincent Torri

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Patrick Galbraith
Vincent,

No luck with 7zip either:

http://img.skitch.com/20091110-g2a93ypf7r2gtq2shjychxdjyf.jpg

Am I using it incorrectly?

Thanks,

Patrick

Vincent Torri wrote:
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Patrick Galbraith wrote:

  
I tried with winzip but it complained that the .lzma files (from sourceforge) where corrupt. (see
http://img.skitch.com/20091110-cqpiwnai6g5ga5ib95isgtr9s4.jpg)
    

forget about winzip, use 7zip.

Vincent Torri

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Chris Sutcliffe-2
> No luck with 7zip either:
>
> http://img.skitch.com/20091110-g2a93ypf7r2gtq2shjychxdjyf.jpg
>
> Am I using it incorrectly?

You are using an old version of 7zip which if I remember correctly
does not support lzma.  Update to the 9.x beta series and you should
be fine.

Chris

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http://emergedesktop.org

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Keith Marshall
In reply to this post by lrn-2
Patrick,

FYI, I didn't read your reply to this; it was pure HTML, which, as a
matter of policy, I discard unread.  (Curiously, your original query
was plain text, which is what we prefer).

On Tuesday 10 November 2009 01:55:58 LRN wrote:
> > I'm curious - what is the reason for using .lzma file extension
> > for msys packages? Why not use something that standard gnu tools
> > can deal with such as gzip or zip?
>
> http://www.mingw.org/PackageIdentificationHOWTO , at the bottom

And furthermore, lzma compression *is* supported by the current
version of GNU tar, (which together with the bsdtar Chuck mentioned,
are the *only* archiving tools we support *formally*):
http://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_node/gzip.html#SEC127 

That said, neither of these tools is installed automatically, during
an MSYS-1.0.11 default install; (tar is, but it's version 1.19.90,
which lacks the *built-in* lzma support, but does support it via a
separate lzma.exe filter); you have to download and install the
tar-1.22-1-msys-1.0.11 update to have the built-in support, and/or
bsdtar-2.7.1 from libarchive-2.7.1-1-msys-1.0.11, (which likely
needs the libarchive DLL package in addition to the bsdtar binary;
the release notes don't seem to be comprehensively clear on this
point), to add bsdtar.

--

Regards,
Keith.

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Re: .lzma file extension???

JonY-3
In reply to this post by Chris Sutcliffe-2
On 11/10/2009 23:36, Chris Sutcliffe wrote:

>> No luck with 7zip either:
>>
>> http://img.skitch.com/20091110-g2a93ypf7r2gtq2shjychxdjyf.jpg
>>
>> Am I using it incorrectly?
>
> You are using an old version of 7zip which if I remember correctly
> does not support lzma.  Update to the 9.x beta series and you should
> be fine.
>
> Chris
>

Hi,

7zip 9.x beta supports lzma2 (like xz), while the older versions used lzma.

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Re: .lzma file extension???

JonY-3
In reply to this post by Chris Sutcliffe-2
On 11/10/2009 23:36, Chris Sutcliffe wrote:

>> No luck with 7zip either:
>>
>> http://img.skitch.com/20091110-g2a93ypf7r2gtq2shjychxdjyf.jpg
>>
>> Am I using it incorrectly?
>
> You are using an old version of 7zip which if I remember correctly
> does not support lzma.  Update to the 9.x beta series and you should
> be fine.
>
> Chris
>

Hi,

7zip 9.x beta supports lzma2 (like xz), while the older versions used lzma.

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Erwin Waterlander
In reply to this post by Patrick Galbraith
Op 11/10/2009 04:00 PM, Patrick Galbraith schreef:
> Chris,
>
> I tried with winzip but it complained that the .lzma files (from
> sourceforge) where corrupt. (see
> http://img.skitch.com/20091110-cqpiwnai6g5ga5ib95isgtr9s4.jpg)
WinZip >= 12 supports ".zip" files with lzma compression. Not ".lzma"
files. These are slightly different.

With classical zip you can only set compression levels from 0 (no
compression) to 9 (strongest compression), with options -0 to -9.
Modern versions of zip can set different compression methods
(bzip2/lzma). E.g. with info-zip 3.0:  zip -Z bzip2 foo bar.c



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Re: .lzma file extension???

Erwin Waterlander
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
Keith Marshall schreef:

>
> And furthermore, lzma compression *is* supported by the current
> version of GNU tar, (which together with the bsdtar Chuck mentioned,
> are the *only* archiving tools we support *formally*):
> http://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_node/gzip.html#SEC127 
>
> That said, neither of these tools is installed automatically, during
> an MSYS-1.0.11 default install; (tar is, but it's version 1.19.90,
> which lacks the *built-in* lzma support, but does support it via a
> separate lzma.exe filter); you have to download and install the
> tar-1.22-1-msys-1.0.11 update to have the built-in support, and/or
> bsdtar-2.7.1 from libarchive-2.7.1-1-msys-1.0.11, (which likely
> needs the libarchive DLL package in addition to the bsdtar binary;
> the release notes don't seem to be comprehensively clear on this
> point), to add bsdtar.
>
>  

Why was lzma selected? The mingw/msys files are not so big. You save
only a few mega bytes compared to .tar.bz2. Tar.bz2 is handled properly
by much more tools. The Cygwin project packs all files as .tar.bz2. Is
it not better to wait a few years until .tar.lzma becomes more mainstream?

Erwin

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Keith Marshall
On Tuesday 10 November 2009 22:20:59 Erwin Waterlander wrote:
> Why was lzma selected? The mingw/msys files are not so big. You
> save only a few mega bytes compared to .tar.bz2. Tar.bz2 is
> handled properly by much more tools.

Primarily because few, if any, of those tools you expect us to
*informally* support cope well with linked file references within
the tarball.  There is significant redundancy within some of those
packages, (particularly the GCC builds), and lzma reduces that by
an enormous margin.  So, we had a choice: dereference all links and
use lzma to keep the download size more manageable, or use gz/bz2
with links, and force you to use only the unpacking tools which we
*formally* support, and tough luck if you try to use those which we
don't, yet you seem to favour.

> The Cygwin project packs all
> files as .tar.bz2. Is it not better to wait a few years until
> .tar.lzma becomes more mainstream?

What Cygwin chooses to do is irrelevant for us; they work to a
completely different set of constraints.

--

Regards,
Keith.

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Charles Wilson-2
Keith Marshall wrote:
> Primarily because few, if any, of those tools you expect us to
> *informally* support cope well with linked file references within
> the tarball.  There is significant redundancy within some of those
> packages, (particularly the GCC builds), and lzma reduces that by
> an enormous margin.  So, we had a choice: dereference all links and
> use lzma to keep the download size more manageable, or use gz/bz2
> with links, and force you to use only the unpacking tools which we
> *formally* support, and tough luck if you try to use those which we
> don't, yet you seem to favour.

The current svn HEAD revision of libarchive/bsdtar "mostly" works:

libarchive:
=======================================
Totals:
  Tests run:              102
  Tests failed:             3
  Assertions checked: 2823247
  Assertions failed:       12
  Skips reported:          11

Failing tests:
  14: test_entry (1 failures)
  22: test_pax_filename_encoding (10 failures)
  77: test_write_compress_program (1 failures)

14: false alarm, fixed in r1585(?)
22: these all have to do with NLS-encoded filenames, which AFAIK none of
    our tarballs have any such files
77: Not sure about this. It appears that libarchive is having trouble
    when asked to compress an archive using an *external* compressor
    program.  Since I build libarchive with built-in zlib, bzip2, and
    xz/lzma support, this doesn't appear to be an issue for us.


bsdcpio:
=======================================
Totals:
  Tests run:               27
  Tests failed:             0
  Assertions checked:     781
  Assertions failed:        0
  Skips reported:           3
27 tests passed, no failures

bsdtar:
=======================================
Totals:
  Tests run:               15
  Tests failed:             1
  Assertions checked:    2777
  Assertions failed:        6
  Skips reported:           4

Failing tests:
  14: test_windows (6 failures)

These appear to be bugs in the test. It's complaining that the
directories in a test archive don't seem to match the expected results
-- but the difference is a '\' vs. '/' issue.


I had intended to wait until 2.8.0 was released, and all known bugs
(such as these testsuite failures) were fixed, before releasing an
official mingw libarchive/bsdtar package.

I think I will still wait until then for a *package*.  However, I could
simply upload a statically linked mingw bsdtar.exe *program*.  No
warranty, express or implied, yadda yadda yadda...

Heck, technically I don't even need to upload the source code, because
(a) it's not linked with msys, (b) it's BSD, and (c) its dependencies
zlib, bzip2, and xz are all permissive licensed, not copyleft.  I won't
do that, of course, but I *could*...

At least then, we could say: mingw-get is the answer, but until it is
available, use >>this<<.

--
Chuck

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Nathan Schulte-2
In reply to this post by Erwin Waterlander
Erwin Waterlander <waterlan@...> writes:

> Is
> it not better to wait a few years until .tar.lzma becomes more mainstream?

Things don't just become mainstream on their own, people have to adopt them. :)


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Re: .lzma file extension???

lrn-2
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
Keith Marshall wrote:
> That said, neither of these tools is installed automatically, during
> an MSYS-1.0.11 default install; (tar is, but it's version 1.19.90,
> which lacks the *built-in* lzma support, but does support it via a
> separate lzma.exe filter); you have to download and install the
> tar-1.22-1-msys-1.0.11 update to have the built-in support, and/or
> bsdtar-2.7.1 from libarchive-2.7.1-1-msys-1.0.11, (which likely
> needs the libarchive DLL package in addition to the bsdtar binary;
> the release notes don't seem to be comprehensively clear on this
> point), to add bsdtar.
I think it would be wise to stress the point that a tar without lzma
support still supports external lzma.exe unpacker (via
--external-program switch or, preferably, via pipes), so it is not
really a big loss.

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Charles Wilson-2
LRN wrote:

> Keith Marshall wrote:
>> That said, neither of these tools is installed automatically, during
>> an MSYS-1.0.11 default install; (tar is, but it's version 1.19.90,
>> which lacks the *built-in* lzma support, but does support it via a
>> separate lzma.exe filter); you have to download and install the
>> tar-1.22-1-msys-1.0.11 update to have the built-in support, and/or
>> bsdtar-2.7.1 from libarchive-2.7.1-1-msys-1.0.11, (which likely
>> needs the libarchive DLL package in addition to the bsdtar binary;
>> the release notes don't seem to be comprehensively clear on this
>> point), to add bsdtar.

> I think it would be wise to stress the point that a tar without lzma
> support still supports external lzma.exe unpacker (via
> --external-program switch or, preferably, via pipes), so it is not
> really a big loss.

That's only true (on win32) for MSYS and cygwin versions. The GnuWin32
GNU tar doesn't support spawning external programs, and I think the same
is true for the GnuWin32 bsdtar.

The mingw bsdtar I just uploaded *supposedly* supports spawning external
programs, but those are among the known failures exposed by the
testsuite.  Fortunately, that bsdtar is compiled with built-in lzma/xz
support, so it doesn't /need/ to spawn an external program.

--
Chuck

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Re: .lzma file extension???

Stephen Lee-2
In reply to this post by Chris Sutcliffe-2
Chris Sutcliffe <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > http://img.skitch.com/20091110-g2a93ypf7r2gtq2shjychxdjyf.jpg
> >
> > Am I using it incorrectly?
>
> You are using an old version of 7zip which if I remember correctly
> does not support lzma.  Update to the 9.x beta series and you should
> be fine.

According to the changelog <http://www.7-zip.org/history.txt>,
7-zip 4.58 and later supports .lzma archives.

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