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[gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Peter Hurley
I thought I'd revive this because I haven't seen any progress or
discussion on this front at all from the mingw devs.

Multi-threaded exception handling is broken because of a build problem in
the shared library. This basically means multi-threaded C++ apps are
broken (are you using new?).

The defect (#2837096) that spells this out is still
unassigned/unconfirmed. The previous thread that outlined the problem was
only commented on by other devs [John & Kai].

What's going on?

Regards,
Peter Hurley



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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Danny Smith
>
> Multi-threaded exception handling is broken because of a build problem in
> the shared library. This basically means multi-threaded C++ apps are
> broken (are you using new?).
>
> The defect (#2837096) that spells this out is still
> unassigned/unconfirmed. The previous thread that outlined the problem was
> only commented on by other devs [John & Kai].
The temporary workaround is to add --disable-tls to configure options and  
 rebuild gcc.

The fix is to use something like
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
abandoning support for win9x/WinME

Danny



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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Peter Hurley
Hi Danny,

> Danny Smith wrote:
> > Peter Hurley wrote:
> >
> > Multi-threaded exception handling is broken because of a build problem
> > in the shared library. This basically means multi-threaded C++ apps
are
> > broken (are you using new?).
> >
> > The defect (#2837096) that spells this out is still
> > unassigned/unconfirmed. The previous thread that outlined the problem
> > was only commented on by other devs [John & Kai].
>
> The temporary workaround is to add --disable-tls to configure options
and
> rebuild gcc.
>
> The fix is to use something like
> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
> or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
> abandoning support for win9x/WinME

With all due respect, I don't understand why this hasn't been fixed and
backported already.  

The appropriate fix (which doesn't sacrifice old Windows support) is
trivial - fix the gcc build so that crtmt.o is pulled into the shared c
library build. Steve Wolter offered to push the upstream patch back on Oct
19th (on this list) with no takers. (FYI - In his patch, he also claims to
have integrated mingwm10.dll into the shared c library as well - which I
feel is the superior approach).

The second approach (which at least addresses exception thread-safety but
not __thread specifier bug) was offered by John (of TDM) back on Aug 14
(again on this list): single line source code patch to eh_globals.cc

To my mind, MinGW gcc *as distributed* is not appropriate for
multi-threaded c++ apps. I ported Intel's TBB to MinGW back in July but
haven't posted the patches yet because out-of-the-box MinGW's use of it
will be unstable.

I would have already fixed this if I could build gcc. OTOH, I don't even
know what build options or platform is currently used for the canonical
distribution on SourceForge - I've never seen this documented on this list
or the dev list.

Respectfully,
Peter Hurley



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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Kai Tietz-2
2009/11/25 Peter Hurley <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Danny,
>
>> Danny Smith wrote:
>> > Peter Hurley wrote:
>> >
>> > Multi-threaded exception handling is broken because of a build problem
>> > in the shared library. This basically means multi-threaded C++ apps
> are
>> > broken (are you using new?).
>> >
>> > The defect (#2837096) that spells this out is still
>> > unassigned/unconfirmed. The previous thread that outlined the problem
>> > was only commented on by other devs [John & Kai].
>>
>> The temporary workaround is to add --disable-tls to configure options
> and
>> rebuild gcc.
>>
>> The fix is to use something like
>> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
>> or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
>> abandoning support for win9x/WinME
>
> With all due respect, I don't understand why this hasn't been fixed and
> backported already.
>
> The appropriate fix (which doesn't sacrifice old Windows support) is
> trivial - fix the gcc build so that crtmt.o is pulled into the shared c
> library build. Steve Wolter offered to push the upstream patch back on Oct
> 19th (on this list) with no takers. (FYI - In his patch, he also claims to
> have integrated mingwm10.dll into the shared c library as well - which I
> feel is the superior approach).
No, as it leads still to some issues, if somebody builds with static
version of libgcc. The approach to use TLS callbacks in startup code
is the way to solve this issue.
I patched once the libgcc in shared mode for this in gcc, and reverted
it due to a half fix.

The better solution for this is, use for win9X/ME the old mingwm10.dll
approach, and for newer OSes just use TLS-callback code in dll/exe
startup-code.

Kai


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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Earnie Boyd
In reply to this post by Danny Smith
Quoting Danny Smith <[hidden email]>:

>
> The fix is to use something like
> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
> or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
> abandoning support for win9x/WinME
>

But the win9x users still have the option to use the older versions of  
the compiler since they are using older version of the OS.  I don't  
have a problem with moving forward with GCC 4.x leaving win9x/winME in  
the dust lands.

--
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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Earnie Boyd
In reply to this post by Peter Hurley
Quoting Peter Hurley <[hidden email]>:

>
> I would have already fixed this if I could build gcc. OTOH, I don't even
> know what build options or platform is currently used for the canonical
> distribution on SourceForge - I've never seen this documented on this list
> or the dev list.
>

$ gcc -v
Using built-in specs.
Target: mingw32
Configured with: ../gcc-4.4.0/configure  
--enable-languages=c,ada,c++,fortran,java,objc,obj-c++  
--disable-sjlj-exceptions --enable-shared --enable-libgcj  
--enable-libgomp --with-dwarf2 --disable-win32-registry  
--enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-version-specific-runtime-libs  
--prefix=/mingw --with-gmp=/mingw/src/gmp/root  
--with-mpfr=/mingw/src/mpfr/root --build=mingw32
Thread model: win32
gcc version 4.4.0 (GCC)

I've heard Danny mention that he uses Cygwin to build gcc and my guess  
by looking at the above configure switches is that Aaron did as well  
for this release.  I have in the past used MSYS to build GCC and in  
fact when I maintained MSYS GCC was my testing ground for a working  
dev version of MSYS.  I haven't tried the newer versions of GCC but up  
to and including some 3.x version I was able to build GCC with MSYS.

--
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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Bob Rossi-2
In reply to this post by Danny Smith
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 03:09:31PM +1300, Danny Smith wrote:

> >
> > Multi-threaded exception handling is broken because of a build problem in
> > the shared library. This basically means multi-threaded C++ apps are
> > broken (are you using new?).
> >
> > The defect (#2837096) that spells this out is still
> > unassigned/unconfirmed. The previous thread that outlined the problem was
> > only commented on by other devs [John & Kai].
> The temporary workaround is to add --disable-tls to configure options and  
>  rebuild gcc.
>
> The fix is to use something like
> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
> or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
> abandoning support for win9x/WinME

If anyone is interested, I was able to use TDM GCC
  http://www.tdragon.net/recentgcc/
which has support for multi threaded C++ programs with exceptions.

I'm not sure what was done to achieve this, but I'm sure someone
interested could poke at the source code to see.

For me, the official mingw is completely broken with out support for
this feature, and I know i'm not alone,
  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1377833/unable-to-catch-stdinvalidargument

Thanks,
Bob Rossi

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handlingbroken

Danny Smith
> If anyone is interested, I was able to use TDM GCC
>  http://www.tdragon.net/recentgcc/
> which has support for multi threaded C++ programs with exceptions.
>
> I'm not sure what was done to achieve this, but I'm sure someone
> interested could poke at the source code to see.


TDM still uses the w32-shared-ptr.[c|h] additions (renamed and with credits
to original authors removed) to libgcc.  These were abandoned on mingw after
gcc-3..4.5 because of maintenance burden (every time libgcc's or libstdc++
added or removed global data in EH code, there is potential breakage of ABI,
as the global  W32_EH_SHARED  structure holding pointers to EH data changes
size.)

FWIW,  C++  dll's built with bog-standard mingw toolchain may not be
compatible with TDM  apps, because of this local difference.

Danny


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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handlingbroken

John E. / TDM
Danny Smith wrote:
> TDM still uses the w32-shared-ptr.[c|h] additions (renamed and with credits
> to original authors removed) to libgcc.

Make that "rewritten and renamed multiple times, with credits to
original authors accidentally omitted along the way". Considering that
the code this patch is based on is public domain, I'd be well within my
rights to keep it that way, but I do prefer to give credit where credit
is due.

My apologies to Thomas Pfaff and Adriano dos Santos Fernandes, wherever
you may be...

> FWIW,  C++  dll's built with bog-standard mingw toolchain may not be
> compatible with TDM  apps, because of this local difference.
>  

I believe the most correct way to state this is: a module built with the
standard MinGW GCC and a module built with TDM-GCC won't be able to
catch each other's exceptions. Everything else should work per upstream
GCC versioning.

-John E.

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Peter Hurley
In reply to this post by Kai Tietz-2

Kai Tietz wrote:

>> Peter Hurley wrote:
>>
>> The appropriate fix (which doesn't sacrifice old Windows support) is
>> trivial - fix the gcc build so that crtmt.o is pulled into the shared
>> c library build. Steve Wolter offered to push the upstream patch back
>> on Oct 19th (on this list) with no takers. (FYI - In his patch, he
>> also claims to have integrated mingwm10.dll into the shared c library
>> as well - which I feel is the superior approach).
>
> No, as it leads still to some issues, if somebody builds with static
> version of libgcc. The approach to use TLS callbacks in startup code
> is the way to solve this issue.
> I patched once the libgcc in shared mode for this in gcc, and reverted
> it due to a half fix.
>
> The better solution for this is, use for win9X/ME the old mingwm10.dll
> approach, and for newer OSes just use TLS-callback code in dll/exe
> startup-code.

Hi Kai but also to the mingw devs,

The conundrum over switching to TLS callbacks for cleaning up exception
contexts has paralyzed fixing this problem. My arguments for keeping this
simple are:

1. Architectural decision was already made. The TLS callback patch wasn't
part of the 4.4 release (and still isn't...).
2. Shared Dll is necessary anyway. Cross-module exception handling
requires a shared dll; this was the whole impetus behind putting the
exception handling code in the shared libgcc dll in the first place.
3. TLS callbacks fix a different problem. Strictly speaking, they are only
necessary to prevent eh context leaks when using the static libgcc (ie.,
single module). In this case, TLS callbacks can be pulled in by building
it as a static library (this may already be possible).
4. Building libgcc_s with crtmt.o and libgwmthr is a really easy fix.

I'm no fan of W95/Me but adding/changing gcc build options seems like a
next-release-kind-of-thing (build target arch support).



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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Keith Marshall
On Thursday 03 December 2009 16:58:20 Peter Hurley wrote:
> > The better solution for this is, use for win9X/ME the old
> > mingwm10.dll approach, and for newer OSes just use TLS-callback
> > code in dll/exe startup-code.
>
> Hi Kai but also to the mingw devs,
>
> The conundrum over switching to TLS callbacks for cleaning up
> exception contexts has paralyzed fixing this problem.

Hello Peter,

What exactly do you expect the MinGW devs to do here?  There is no
one associated with this project who maintains a local fork of GCC.  
The only acceptable way to get this fixed is for the solution to be
ratified upstream, by those responsible for the Win32 branch of GCC
development itself.

Danny Smith, who is one of those GCC developers, has already
explained why the solution you advocate will not fly.  While it may
seem interesting, continued discussion here will not bear fruit;
this needs to be escalated upstream, on GCC Bugzilla.

--

Regards,
Keith.

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Kai Tietz-2
In reply to this post by Peter Hurley
2009/12/3 Peter Hurley <[hidden email]>:

>
> Kai Tietz wrote:
>>> Peter Hurley wrote:
>>>
>>> The appropriate fix (which doesn't sacrifice old Windows support) is
>>> trivial - fix the gcc build so that crtmt.o is pulled into the shared
>>> c library build. Steve Wolter offered to push the upstream patch back
>>> on Oct 19th (on this list) with no takers. (FYI - In his patch, he
>>> also claims to have integrated mingwm10.dll into the shared c library
>>> as well - which I feel is the superior approach).
>>
>> No, as it leads still to some issues, if somebody builds with static
>> version of libgcc. The approach to use TLS callbacks in startup code
>> is the way to solve this issue.
>> I patched once the libgcc in shared mode for this in gcc, and reverted
>> it due to a half fix.
>>
>> The better solution for this is, use for win9X/ME the old mingwm10.dll
>> approach, and for newer OSes just use TLS-callback code in dll/exe
>> startup-code.
>
> Hi Kai but also to the mingw devs,
>
> The conundrum over switching to TLS callbacks for cleaning up exception
> contexts has paralyzed fixing this problem. My arguments for keeping this
> simple are:
>
> 1. Architectural decision was already made. The TLS callback patch wasn't
> part of the 4.4 release (and still isn't...).
Correct.
> 2. Shared Dll is necessary anyway. Cross-module exception handling
> requires a shared dll; this was the whole impetus behind putting the
> exception handling code in the shared libgcc dll in the first place.
Right, for throws over DLL boundaries, the libgcc_s is still required,
but for cleaning up the TLS hooks on a throw it is solved by
TLS-callbacks in startup for DLL/EXE in runtime.
> 3. TLS callbacks fix a different problem. Strictly speaking, they are only
> necessary to prevent eh context leaks when using the static libgcc (ie.,
> single module). In this case, TLS callbacks can be pulled in by building
> it as a static library (this may already be possible).
By adding TLS-callback into runtime startup code (as we do for
mingw-w64) static and shared build are able to use TLS-callback. It
isn't not just a memory leak, it is also the calling of the registered
callback on thread exit.
> 4. Building libgcc_s with crtmt.o and libgwmthr is a really easy fix.
This isn't necessary, but if done, gcc Makefiles need to be changed,
which I dislike to see in gcc sources.

> I'm no fan of W95/Me but adding/changing gcc build options seems like a
> next-release-kind-of-thing (build target arch support).
It has nothing to do with gcc here and so the change isn't related to
gcc at all, it is just the startup-code of mingw.org, which would need
to provide this feature. Of course this should be done in an new
release of the startup code and runtime.

Cheers,
Kai


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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Kai Tietz-2
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
2009/12/3 Keith Marshall <[hidden email]>:

> On Thursday 03 December 2009 16:58:20 Peter Hurley wrote:
>> > The better solution for this is, use for win9X/ME the old
>> > mingwm10.dll approach, and for newer OSes just use TLS-callback
>> > code in dll/exe startup-code.
>>
>> Hi Kai but also to the mingw devs,
>>
>> The conundrum over switching to TLS callbacks for cleaning up
>> exception contexts has paralyzed fixing this problem.
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> What exactly do you expect the MinGW devs to do here?  There is no
> one associated with this project who maintains a local fork of GCC.
> The only acceptable way to get this fixed is for the solution to be
> ratified upstream, by those responsible for the Win32 branch of GCC
> development itself.

Just to be more clear here. We don't provide a private fork of gcc. We
build our provided pre-build toolchains just from gcc mainline source.
The only project working with a private fork in mingw.org, and this is
pretty sad, as a lot of things present in this private fork would be
better placed in gcc's upstream repository.

> Danny Smith, who is one of those GCC developers, has already
> explained why the solution you advocate will not fly.  While it may
> seem interesting, continued discussion here will not bear fruit;
> this needs to be escalated upstream, on GCC Bugzilla.

As Danny said, there are two ways.

"The fix is to use something like
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html or the
mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means abandoning
support for win9x/WinME"

For the first case, I have objections in the role as a gcc maintainer
for Windows target. The second way is the way I prefer, and it is
clearly an issue of mingw.org to move here, not gcc at all.

Cheers,
Kai

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Keith Marshall
On Thursday 03 December 2009 17:51:57 Kai Tietz wrote:
> The only project working with a private fork [is] mingw.org...

I don't know where you've uncovered this astonishing item of gross
propaganda and misinformation!  Perhaps you just invented it?  In
any case, it is 100% dead WRONG!!!

In case you missed it: *this* is *the* mailing list for MinGW.org; as  
the administrator here, I utterly refute your ridiculous claim.  The
reality is that Danny Smith did maintain such a private fork, on our
behalf, up until the point where the GCC Steering Committee adopted
the MinGW/Win32 port as an officially supported target; this ended
with GCC-3.4.5.  From that point onwards, there is no private fork
maintained here.

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Keith.

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Kai Tietz-2
2009/12/3 Keith Marshall <[hidden email]>:

> On Thursday 03 December 2009 17:51:57 Kai Tietz wrote:
>> The only project working with a private fork [is] mingw.org...
>
> I don't know where you've uncovered this astonishing item of gross
> propaganda and misinformation!  Perhaps you just invented it?  In
> any case, it is 100% dead WRONG!!!
>
> In case you missed it: *this* is *the* mailing list for MinGW.org; as
> the administrator here, I utterly refute your ridiculous claim.  The
> reality is that Danny Smith did maintain such a private fork, on our
> behalf, up until the point where the GCC Steering Committee adopted
> the MinGW/Win32 port as an officially supported target; this ended
> with GCC-3.4.5.  From that point onwards, there is no private fork
> maintained here.

Hmm, well. I don't see the msys compiler upstream. Must be a private
fork. I see big patch-balls for gcc provided by mingw.org for building
toolchain, also not part of upstream sources. So all in all, your msys
compiler isn't part of mainstream gcc, and even your delivered
toolchain binaries are enriched by big private extensions. Do I see
this wrong?

Cheers,
Kai
--
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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Keith Marshall
On Thursday 03 December 2009 19:45:09 Kai Tietz wrote:
> Hmm, well. I don't see the msys compiler upstream. Must be a
> private fork.

And completely irrelevant, in the context of this or any other case
you are trying to make; the MSYS compiler is *not* intended for any
form of general purpose use; it is *exclusively* for development of
MSYS itself, and no other use is either condoned or supported.

> I see big patch-balls for gcc provided by mingw.org
> for building toolchain, also not part of upstream sources.

Really?  In *active* development?  First I've heard of it.

> So all
> in all, your msys compiler isn't part of mainstream gcc, and even
> your delivered toolchain binaries are enriched by big private
> extensions. Do I see this wrong?

You try to make more of it than is warranted.  A private fork
intended for private use; irrelevant in this context.  The product
intended for public distribution and use *is* mainline GCC.

--

Regards,
Keith.

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handlingbroken

Danny Smith
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
From: "Keith Marshall"

> On Thursday 03 December 2009 17:51:57 Kai Tietz wrote:
>> The only project working with a private fork [is] mingw.org...
>
> I don't know where you've uncovered this astonishing item of gross
> propaganda and misinformation!  Perhaps you just invented it?  In
> any case, it is 100% dead WRONG!!!
>
raet
I too feel like using  !!!-language.   Kai, this kind of provocation does
not benefit anybody.  I know because I have been guilty of similar stirring:
in the end it just creates animosity.

Danny



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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Roger Pack
In reply to this post by Danny Smith
> The fix is to use something like
> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
> or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
> abandoning support for win9x/WinME

+1 for abandoning 9x/WinME :)

-r

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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handling broken

Earnie Boyd
Quoting Roger Pack <[hidden email]>:

>> The fix is to use something like
>> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-08/msg01207.html
>> or the mingw-w64 startup code  to  use  TLS callbacks.  This means
>> abandoning support for win9x/WinME
>
> +1 for abandoning 9x/WinME :)
>

It isn't total abandonment.  The historical files will still exist if  
one wants to use the historical OS.

--
Earnie



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Re: [gcc 4.4][BUMP] Multi-threaded exception handlingbroken

NightStrike
In reply to this post by Danny Smith
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Danny Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: "Keith Marshall"
>
>> On Thursday 03 December 2009 17:51:57 Kai Tietz wrote:
>>> The only project working with a private fork [is] mingw.org...
>>
>> I don't know where you've uncovered this astonishing item of gross
>> propaganda and misinformation!  Perhaps you just invented it?  In
>> any case, it is 100% dead WRONG!!!
>>
> raet

What does raet mean?

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