RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

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RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Earnie Boyd
I've added as a contributed package tck and tk 8.6.0 for your use.

CLUI:
$ mingw-get update
$ mingw-get install mingw32-tcl mingw32-tk

GUI
Installation>Update catalogue
MinGW Contributed>MinGW Contributed Applications
Scroll to mingw32-tcl and mingw32-tk and select the bin class and any
other class of your choosing marking them for installation.
Installation>Apply changes

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Re: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Sebastian Schuberth
On 15.09.2013 22:31, Earnie Boyd wrote:

> I've added as a contributed package tck and tk 8.6.0 for your use.

Great stuff, thanks a lot! I just would have hoped that you were using mgwport files for building these, probably building on the work I already had done at

https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv-packages/tree/a9eaa71dbecdb478a75c75175a5deac4b50a5d97/mingw32-tcl
https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv-packages/tree/a9eaa71dbecdb478a75c75175a5deac4b50a5d97/mingw32-tk

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Re: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Earnie Boyd
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Sebastian Schuberth wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2013 13:49, "Earnie Boyd" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Please stop Cc me on your responses.
>
> As you wish. I was just trying to be polite by pointing out a topic to you
> that you might be interested in. But in return, please CC the mailing list
> if you reply to one of my mails to the list.
>

I thought that I had only responded to the mailing list.  This
response is going there, I hope you don't mind.

>> >> I've added as a contributed package tck and tk 8.6.0 for your use.
>> >
>> > Great stuff, thanks a lot! I just would have hoped that you were using
>> > mgwport files for building these, probably building on the work I already
>> > had done at
>> >
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with the way I delivered the source package.
>
> I was not trying to imply otherwise.
>

A sore point pressed brings on the need to defend.

>> mingw-get source mingw32-tcl mingw32-tk
>> cd tcl-8.6.0-1-mingw32-src
>> make clean package install
>> cd ../tk-8.6.0-1-mingw32-src
>> make clean package install
>>
>> >
>> > https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv-packages/tree/a9eaa71dbecdb478a75c75175a5deac4b50a5d97/mingw32-tcl
>> >
>> > https://github.com/sschuberth/mingwGitDevEnv-packages/tree/a9eaa71dbecdb478a75c75175a5deac4b50a5d97/mingw32-tk
>>
>> Okay, so what.  It is now delivered by MinGW and can be installed with
>> mingw-get.
>
> That was already the case with my packages (if you added my repo to
> mingw-get's config).
>

That will never occur.  We will not add to our repository some
external package since we have no control over that package  However,
the provider of an external package could provide the catalogue data
necessary for his package to be delivered by mingw-get given proper
instruction to the user to modify is profile.xml file to be able to
find the package delivery.

You could have offered the packages to upload as a contribution but I
do not remember any such offer.

> Seems to me like you're a little bit too easily offended...

See the point above.  However, your real point is that you have tcl/tk
packages that you put together and those could have been used instead
of new ones I uploaded.  I used tcl/tk to test the new 4.0.0 library
and had them sitting around.  Adding the package data around the
source is simple and usually only requires a modification of
package.ini and README.package-version-release marker-mingw32.

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Re: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Sebastian Schuberth
On 16.09.2013 14:35, Earnie Boyd wrote:

>>> Okay, so what.  It is now delivered by MinGW and can be installed with
>>> mingw-get.
>>
>> That was already the case with my packages (if you added my repo to
>> mingw-get's config).
>>
>
> That will never occur.  We will not add to our repository some
> external package since we have no control over that package  However,

I was also not suggesting to add my repo to the official default.xml / profile.xml. I just wanted to point out that a user, if he added my repo to this local profile.xml, already was able to install the tcl/tk packages I've provided with mingw-get.

> You could have offered the packages to upload as a contribution but I
> do not remember any such offer.

That's right, I haven't done so, because I wasn't able to fulfill the requirement to keep on maintaining such a contributed packaged for the time being. MinGW project members have expressed several times that they only accept contributed packages if they would not need to maintain them.

> See the point above.  However, your real point is that you have tcl/tk
> packages that you put together and those could have been used instead
> of new ones I uploaded.  I used tcl/tk to test the new 4.0.0 library

My real point is that I'm a little bit disappointed that the MinGW project is promoting mgwport as the "revolutionary new method for building and maintaining packages for the MinGW/MSYS offerings" [1], and I've spend quite some time to learn how mgwport files work in order to build and provide several packages, just to see that the MinGW project members create the same packages without mgwport. I just want to a) avoid duplicate work and b) get a definite answer on whether mgwport files are now the way to go for building packages files, or what else.

[1] https://gitorious.org/mgwport/mgwport/source/98324ce183c0922124ef09a9c481ed30d03456ad:README

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Re: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Keith Marshall
On 16/09/13 21:01, Sebastian Schuberth wrote:
> My real point is that I'm a little bit disappointed that the MinGW
> project is promoting mgwport as the "revolutionary new method for
> building and maintaining packages for the MinGW/MSYS offerings" [1],

In what way, exactly, can a reference on gitorious.org, which has
absolutely no affinity whatsoever for MinGW.org, be construed as
MinGW.org (the official home of the MinGW Project) promoting this?

> and I've spend quite some time to learn how mgwport files work

I sympathize; you have been misled.  Had you researched the MinGW-dvlpr
archives, you might have noted my fundamental objections to mgwport.

> in order to build and provide several packages, just to see that the
> MinGW project members create the same packages without mgwport.

Which is perfectly reasonable, since...

> I just want to a) avoid duplicate work and b) get a definite answer
> on whether mgwport files are now the way to go for building packages
> files,

...it is absolutely no such thing; in it's present form it is the failed
first development effort, which should be thrown away to start over
again; (cf. ESR -- "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

> or what else.

Anything you find convenient, provided it allows one to simply:

  $ mingw-get source foo
  $ cd foo-<version>
  $ ./configure
  $ make

> [1] https://gitorious.org/mgwport/mgwport/source/98324ce183c0922124ef09a9c481ed30d03456ad:README

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Re: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Sebastian Schuberth
On 16.09.2013 23:43, Keith Marshall wrote:

>> My real point is that I'm a little bit disappointed that the MinGW
>> project is promoting mgwport as the "revolutionary new method for
>> building and maintaining packages for the MinGW/MSYS offerings" [1],
>
> In what way, exactly, can a reference on gitorious.org, which has
> absolutely no affinity whatsoever for MinGW.org, be construed as
> MinGW.org (the official home of the MinGW Project) promoting this?

Well, [1] mentions mgwport and links to [2]. So there's your affinity.
And the statement "revolutionary new method for building and maintaining
packages" can easily create the impression that using mgwport is the
favorable way to build packages now.

> I sympathize; you have been misled.  Had you researched the MinGW-dvlpr
> archives, you might have noted my fundamental objections to mgwport.

I'm having a hard time finding that discussion. Could you please provide
a link for reference?

[1] http://www.mingw.org/wiki/mgwport
[2]
https://gitorious.org/mgwport/mgwport/source/98324ce183c0922124ef09a9c481ed30d03456ad:README

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Fwd: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Keith Marshall
Arrghhhh!  Yet another cc, bypassing the list!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Keith Marshall <[hidden email]>
Date: 17 September 2013 13:14
Subject: Re: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0
To: Sebastian Schuberth <[hidden email]>


On 17 September 2013 09:27, Sebastian Schuberth wrote:
On 16.09.2013 23:43, Keith Marshall wrote:
In what way, exactly, can a reference on gitorious.org, which has
absolutely no affinity whatsoever for MinGW.org, be construed as
MinGW.org (the official home of the MinGW Project) promoting this?

Well, [1] mentions mgwport and links to [2]. So there's your affinity.
 
A posting on a publicly maintained wiki?  By a contributor who has no
official association with the project?  Hardly lends much credibility as
"affinity".

And the statement "revolutionary new method for building and maintaining
packages"

A statement by whom?  The package author?  Of course, he's going to try
to hype it up.

can easily create the impression that using mgwport is the
favorable way to build packages now.

Favoured by whom?  The package author again, of course.  It certainly
*isn't* favoured by this project administrator.  I'm having a hard time
finding any online reference for the dialogue, but I did give the author
a long list of issues, which he will need to address before I will
consider it further; not one of them has been addressed.

I did find:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.mingw.devel/5246/focus=5254

In this, I explicitly request a contributor to avoid mgwport, because I
consider the packages, (specifically the source packages), it creates to
be fundamentally broken.

--
Regards,
Keith
 



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Re: Fwd: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Peter Rosin
On 2013-09-17 14:16, Keith Marshall wrote:
> Favoured by whom?  The package author again, of course.  It certainly
> *isn't* favoured by this project administrator.  I'm having a hard time
> finding any online reference for the dialogue, but I did give the author
> a long list of issues, which he will need to address before I will
> consider it further; not one of them has been addressed.
>
> I did find:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.mingw.devel/5246/focus=5254

Perhaps this:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.mingw.user/37192/focus=37255

Cheers,
Peter


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Re: Fwd: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Sebastian Schuberth
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
On 17.09.2013 14:16, Keith Marshall wrote:

> Arrghhhh!  Yet another cc, bypassing the list!

I'm not sure what this refers to. But if you're talking about me, I'm
not bypassing the list. I'm just using Gmane to post to the list via the
newsgroup.

>     Well, [1] mentions mgwport and links to [2]. So there's your affinity.
>
>
> A posting on a publicly maintained wiki?  By a contributor who has no
> official association with the project?  Hardly lends much credibility as
> "affinity".

To me it does not matter whether the wiki is publicly editable or not.
If it's hosted at the project's official site I expect the wiki to be
moderated and to contain facts, not opinions.

>     And the statement "revolutionary new method for building and maintaining
>     packages"
>
>
> A statement by whom?  The package author?  Of course, he's going to try
> to hype it up.

Why should he? mgwport is not some commercial piece of software that you
need to advertize and sell.

>     can easily create the impression that using mgwport is the
>     favorable way to build packages now.
>
>
> Favoured by whom?  The package author again, of course.  It certainly
> *isn't* favoured by this project administrator.  I'm having a hard time

If I'm not mistaken mgwport is authored by Charles Wilson, at least
that's what the commits on Gitorious indicate. Charles also seems to be
an administrator of the mingw project at SourceForge ("Brought to you
by: cstrauss, cwilso11 [...]"); so yes, that does very much create the
impression that mgwport has the blessings of the mingw project
administrators.

--
Sebastian Schuberth


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Re: Fwd: RELEASE: Contributed packages tcl/tk 8.6.0

Keith Marshall
On 17/09/13 20:41, Sebastian Schuberth wrote:
>> Arrghhhh!  Yet another cc, bypassing the list!
>
> I'm not sure what this refers to. But if you're talking about me, I'm
> not bypassing the list. I'm just using Gmane to post to the list via the
> newsgroup.

You cc'd me in reply, rather than just to the list address recorded in
the reply-to header; result: when I hit reply in my gmail web client, I
get your reply address, and yours alone, instead of the list address I'm
expecting.

Here, we prefer you to reply to list only, and not cc individuals.

--
Regards,
Keith.

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