Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

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Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Eli Zaretskii
First, thanks for making GCC 5.3.0 available from the MinGW site.

I have a question: I see in gcc-core a few .dll.a import libraries
that don't seem to have the matching DLLs.  The ones I saw:
libatomic.dll.a, libvtv.dll.a, and libvtv_stubs.dll.a.  Can someone
explain what are those, and why aren't there DLLs to go with them?  Or
did I miss some tarball?

TIA

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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Keith Marshall
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 12/04/16 20:30, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> First, thanks for making GCC 5.3.0 available from the MinGW site.

You're welcome, (although I see that you've now discontinued using it,
because of a cc1.exe problem on WinXP).

> I have a question: I see in gcc-core a few .dll.a import libraries
> that don't seem to have the matching DLLs.  The ones I saw:
> libatomic.dll.a, libvtv.dll.a, and libvtv_stubs.dll.a.  Can
> someone explain what are those, and why aren't there DLLs to go
> with them?  Or did I miss some tarball?

First, let me say that, although I built it, I'm by no means an expert
on GCC internals; please don't consider what follows as being any more
authoritative than you could discover by googling it yourself.

- - libatomic appears to provide support for atomic synchronization
  of memory access operations; it seems to be associated with the
  C++11 memory model, (which may also be applicable for C-language
  processes, so inclusion in gcc-core may be appropriate).

- - libvtv is associated with vtable verification options, while
  libvtv_stubs satisfies the linker, in the case of a vtv enabled
  compiler, when no vtv option is selected; as such, both would
  seem more appropriate to C++, than to gcc-core.

Each of these libraries, and their associated DLLs, seem to be built
by default for GCC-5.3.0, (even when they are not enabled at configure
time), whereas they seem not to have been built for GCC-4.9.3.  I
guess I should adjust the packaging specifications to either deliver
all of them, or to omit them entirely; (I've no idea how useful they
may, or may not be, particularly in the libvtv case, when configured
_without_ '--enable-vtable-verify').

- --
Regards,
Keith.

Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Eli Zaretskii
> From: Keith Marshall <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:21:23 +0100
>
> On 12/04/16 20:30, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > First, thanks for making GCC 5.3.0 available from the MinGW site.
>
> You're welcome, (although I see that you've now discontinued using it,
> because of a cc1.exe problem on WinXP).

I use 5.3.0 on my other machines, though, which run later Windows
versions.

> - - libatomic appears to provide support for atomic synchronization
>   of memory access operations; it seems to be associated with the
>   C++11 memory model, (which may also be applicable for C-language
>   processes, so inclusion in gcc-core may be appropriate).
>
> - - libvtv is associated with vtable verification options, while
>   libvtv_stubs satisfies the linker, in the case of a vtv enabled
>   compiler, when no vtv option is selected; as such, both would
>   seem more appropriate to C++, than to gcc-core.
>
> Each of these libraries, and their associated DLLs, seem to be built
> by default for GCC-5.3.0, (even when they are not enabled at configure
> time), whereas they seem not to have been built for GCC-4.9.3.

Thanks for the info.  However, if the DLLs are built, why aren't they
in the distribution?  is there some problem with "make install" or the
packaging scripts?

> I guess I should adjust the packaging specifications to either
> deliver all of them, or to omit them entirely;

Probably, yes.

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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Keith Marshall
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 24/04/16 21:33, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Each of these libraries, and their associated DLLs, seem to be
>> built by default for GCC-5.3.0, (even when they are not enabled
>> at configure time), whereas they seem not to have been built for
>> GCC-4.9.3.
>
> Thanks for the info.  However, if the DLLs are built, why aren't
> they in the distribution?  is there some problem with "make
> install" or the packaging scripts?

The problem lies in my packaging scripts; 'make install' stages
everything, then all *.a files are packaged into gcc-core, _except_
those which are explicitly specified with '--exclude', whereas DLL
packaging is specified explicitly.

>> I guess I should adjust the packaging specifications to either
>> deliver all of them, or to omit them entirely;
>
> Probably, yes.

I'm thinking that, since I didn't specify '--enable-vtable-verify',
the sensible choice would be to omit all libvtv components, but
perhaps to keep libatomic.dll.a, and to include libatomic-1.dll,
either as a free-standing component package, or maybe, bundled into
the libgcc component package.

Any opinions?

- --
Regards,
Keith.

Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
Key fingerprint: C19E C018 1547 DE50 E1D4 8F53 C0AD 36C6 347E 5A3F
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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

revelator
You can get around the vtable verification dll's by issuing
--disable-libvtv at bootstrap if you dont want this feature.

vtable verification works on windows but the feature itself cannot be
built on windows yet.

but since you use linux as a crosshost you should have luck building
this feature if you want it.

the nessesary command for enabling vtable verification at boot time is
--enable-vtable-verification=yes.

and it can be used by issuing -fvtable-verify in CFLAGS when building
things you want to check with this feature.

Hope it helps.

On 24-04-2016 23:40, Keith Marshall wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 24/04/16 21:33, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> Each of these libraries, and their associated DLLs, seem to be
>>> built by default for GCC-5.3.0, (even when they are not enabled
>>> at configure time), whereas they seem not to have been built for
>>> GCC-4.9.3.
>> Thanks for the info.  However, if the DLLs are built, why aren't
>> they in the distribution?  is there some problem with "make
>> install" or the packaging scripts?
> The problem lies in my packaging scripts; 'make install' stages
> everything, then all *.a files are packaged into gcc-core, _except_
> those which are explicitly specified with '--exclude', whereas DLL
> packaging is specified explicitly.
>
>>> I guess I should adjust the packaging specifications to either
>>> deliver all of them, or to omit them entirely;
>> Probably, yes.
> I'm thinking that, since I didn't specify '--enable-vtable-verify',
> the sensible choice would be to omit all libvtv components, but
> perhaps to keep libatomic.dll.a, and to include libatomic-1.dll,
> either as a free-standing component package, or maybe, bundled into
> the libgcc component package.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> - --
> Regards,
> Keith.
>
> Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
> Key fingerprint: C19E C018 1547 DE50 E1D4 8F53 C0AD 36C6 347E 5A3F
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Eli Zaretskii
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
> From: Keith Marshall <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 22:40:02 +0100
>
> >> I guess I should adjust the packaging specifications to either
> >> deliver all of them, or to omit them entirely;
> >
> > Probably, yes.
>
> I'm thinking that, since I didn't specify '--enable-vtable-verify',
> the sensible choice would be to omit all libvtv components, but
> perhaps to keep libatomic.dll.a, and to include libatomic-1.dll,
> either as a free-standing component package, or maybe, bundled into
> the libgcc component package.
>
> Any opinions?

A (perhaps safer) alternative would be to have a separate package with
these libraries, DLLs, import libraries etc., in case someone would
need them in some situation we don't currently envision.

Thanks.

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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Keith Marshall
In reply to this post by revelator
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/04/16 01:36, ralph engels wrote:
> You can get around the vtable verification dll's by issuing
> --disable-libvtv at bootstrap if you dont want this feature.

Yes, I'd already gleaned this much, after google pointed me to the GCC
wiki, thanks.  I was just somewhat surprised that these libraries get
built with GCC-5.3.0, without this additional configuration option,
whereas they were not with GCC-4.9.3, (unless I've misunderstood that
4.9.3 should actually support the feature.

Also, to be pedantic, this is a _configuration_ option, _not_ a
bootstrap option; you don't bootstrap the compiler build, when in a
cross hosted environment.

> vtable verification works on windows but the feature itself cannot
> be built on windows yet.
>
> but since you use linux as a crosshost you should have luck
> building this feature if you want it.

Well, the associated libraries seem to get built okay, but I don't
know about actual feature support, since I didn't configure with...

> the nessesary command for enabling vtable verification at boot time
> is --enable-vtable-verification=yes.

The GCC wiki says that the option is actually
'--enable-vtable-verify', _not_ '--enable-vtable-verification', but
that aside, it seems like kind of pointless redundancy to have both
'--enable-vtable-verify' and '--enable-libvtv' (enabled by default in
5.3.0) controlling what appear to be (ultimately) inseparable aspects
of the same feature.

> and it can be used by issuing -fvtable-verify in CFLAGS when
> building things you want to check with this feature.

Once again, yes, I'd gleaned as much from the GCC wiki, thanks.

- --
Regards,
Keith.

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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

revelator
Sorry for the typos.

The libvtv dll's get built on windows but have no exports, you can
confirm this using depends or ntldd.

If you issue --enable-vtable-verify on windows the build will fail with
errors pointing to the above.

Besides that yeah it is kind of weird that it builds this feature by
default.

On 25-04-2016 10:47, Keith Marshall wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 25/04/16 01:36, ralph engels wrote:
>> You can get around the vtable verification dll's by issuing
>> --disable-libvtv at bootstrap if you dont want this feature.
> Yes, I'd already gleaned this much, after google pointed me to the GCC
> wiki, thanks.  I was just somewhat surprised that these libraries get
> built with GCC-5.3.0, without this additional configuration option,
> whereas they were not with GCC-4.9.3, (unless I've misunderstood that
> 4.9.3 should actually support the feature.
>
> Also, to be pedantic, this is a _configuration_ option, _not_ a
> bootstrap option; you don't bootstrap the compiler build, when in a
> cross hosted environment.
>
>> vtable verification works on windows but the feature itself cannot
>> be built on windows yet.
>>
>> but since you use linux as a crosshost you should have luck
>> building this feature if you want it.
> Well, the associated libraries seem to get built okay, but I don't
> know about actual feature support, since I didn't configure with...
>
>> the nessesary command for enabling vtable verification at boot time
>> is --enable-vtable-verification=yes.
> The GCC wiki says that the option is actually
> '--enable-vtable-verify', _not_ '--enable-vtable-verification', but
> that aside, it seems like kind of pointless redundancy to have both
> '--enable-vtable-verify' and '--enable-libvtv' (enabled by default in
> 5.3.0) controlling what appear to be (ultimately) inseparable aspects
> of the same feature.
>
>> and it can be used by issuing -fvtable-verify in CFLAGS when
>> building things you want to check with this feature.
> Once again, yes, I'd gleaned as much from the GCC wiki, thanks.
>
> - --
> Regards,
> Keith.
>
> Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
> Key fingerprint: C19E C018 1547 DE50 E1D4 8F53 C0AD 36C6 347E 5A3F
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

revelator
In reply to this post by Keith Marshall
Forgot to mention, vtable verification was supported in gcc-4.9.3 but
not on windows.


On 25-04-2016 10:47, Keith Marshall wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 25/04/16 01:36, ralph engels wrote:
>> You can get around the vtable verification dll's by issuing
>> --disable-libvtv at bootstrap if you dont want this feature.
> Yes, I'd already gleaned this much, after google pointed me to the GCC
> wiki, thanks.  I was just somewhat surprised that these libraries get
> built with GCC-5.3.0, without this additional configuration option,
> whereas they were not with GCC-4.9.3, (unless I've misunderstood that
> 4.9.3 should actually support the feature.
>
> Also, to be pedantic, this is a _configuration_ option, _not_ a
> bootstrap option; you don't bootstrap the compiler build, when in a
> cross hosted environment.
>
>> vtable verification works on windows but the feature itself cannot
>> be built on windows yet.
>>
>> but since you use linux as a crosshost you should have luck
>> building this feature if you want it.
> Well, the associated libraries seem to get built okay, but I don't
> know about actual feature support, since I didn't configure with...
>
>> the nessesary command for enabling vtable verification at boot time
>> is --enable-vtable-verification=yes.
> The GCC wiki says that the option is actually
> '--enable-vtable-verify', _not_ '--enable-vtable-verification', but
> that aside, it seems like kind of pointless redundancy to have both
> '--enable-vtable-verify' and '--enable-libvtv' (enabled by default in
> 5.3.0) controlling what appear to be (ultimately) inseparable aspects
> of the same feature.
>
>> and it can be used by issuing -fvtable-verify in CFLAGS when
>> building things you want to check with this feature.
> Once again, yes, I'd gleaned as much from the GCC wiki, thanks.
>
> - --
> Regards,
> Keith.
>
> Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
> Key fingerprint: C19E C018 1547 DE50 E1D4 8F53 C0AD 36C6 347E 5A3F
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> 24Qza9sd/8ZE4p0632hL
> =bQB1
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Keith Marshall
In reply to this post by revelator
On 25/04/16 15:49, ralph engels wrote:
> The libvtv dll's get built on windows but have no exports, you can
> confirm this using depends or ntldd.

Or with pexports, which reveals identically the same defect for not only
the crossed-native build, but also for the cross-compiler build itself:

  $ pexports ~/mingw32/mingw32/lib/libvtv-0.dll
  LIBRARY libvtv-0.dll
  EXPORTS

  $ pexports ~/mingw32/mingw32/lib/libvtv_stubs-0.dll
  LIBRARY libvtv_stubs-0.dll
  EXPORTS

from which, I guess, we must conclude that this feature is broken on
Windows, so...

> If you issue --enable-vtable-verify on windows the build will fail
> with errors pointing to the above.

it would seem to be pointless even to try to enable support for the
feature, or to distribute the resultant (broken) DLLs.

OTOH, libatomic-1.dll does exhibit exports:

  $ pexports ~/mingw32/mingw32/lib/libatomic-1.dll
  LIBRARY libatomic-1.dll
  EXPORTS
  __atomic_add_fetch_1
  __atomic_add_fetch_2
   .
   .
   .
  __atomic_xor_fetch_4
  __atomic_xor_fetch_8

so I will include it, when I update the package set.

--
Regards,
Keith.

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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

revelator

If built on linux with a crosscompiler targetting mingw using --enable-vtable-verify the exports get built correctly.

That was the reason i mentioned that you might have better luck building it since at the moment i dont have a linux environment handy but i understood you do. 

Link to build instructions and a working linux / mingw-w64 32 bit crosscompiler with vtable verify here https://github.com/RUB-SysSec/WindowsVTV. This uses a patched gcc-4.9-* since the gcc-4.9 version did not support windows as a target for this feature yet, the patch on the site was accepted into gcc version 5 so is no longer needed with gcc-5.3.0.

Den 25-04-2016 kl. 19:41 skrev Keith Marshall:
On 25/04/16 15:49, ralph engels wrote:
The libvtv dll's get built on windows but have no exports, you can 
confirm this using depends or ntldd.
Or with pexports, which reveals identically the same defect for not only
the crossed-native build, but also for the cross-compiler build itself:

  $ pexports ~/mingw32/mingw32/lib/libvtv-0.dll
  LIBRARY libvtv-0.dll
  EXPORTS

  $ pexports ~/mingw32/mingw32/lib/libvtv_stubs-0.dll
  LIBRARY libvtv_stubs-0.dll
  EXPORTS

from which, I guess, we must conclude that this feature is broken on
Windows, so...

If you issue --enable-vtable-verify on windows the build will fail
with errors pointing to the above.
it would seem to be pointless even to try to enable support for the
feature, or to distribute the resultant (broken) DLLs.

OTOH, libatomic-1.dll does exhibit exports:

  $ pexports ~/mingw32/mingw32/lib/libatomic-1.dll
  LIBRARY libatomic-1.dll
  EXPORTS
  __atomic_add_fetch_1
  __atomic_add_fetch_2
   .
   .
   .
  __atomic_xor_fetch_4
  __atomic_xor_fetch_8

so I will include it, when I update the package set.



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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

Keith Marshall
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/04/16 19:08, ralph engels wrote:
> If built on linux with a crosscompiler targetting mingw using
> --enable-vtable-verify the exports get built correctly.

Nope.  It just stops the entire build, stone dead:

libtool: compile:
 /home/keith/src/mingw/gcc-build/gcc-5.3.0-mingw32-cross/./gcc/xgcc
 -B/home/keith/src/mingw/gcc-build/gcc-5.3.0-mingw32-cross/./gcc/
 "-DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU Vtable Verification Runtime Library\""
 -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"libvtv\"
 -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.0\"
 "-DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU Vtable Verification Runtime Library 1.0\""
 -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\"
 -DPACKAGE_URL=\"http://www.gnu.org/software/libvtv/\"
 -DPACKAGE=\"libvtv\" -DVERSION=\"1.0\" -DSTDC_HEADERS=1
 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1
 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1
 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1
 -D__EXTENSIONS__=1 -D_ALL_SOURCE=1 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1
 -D_POSIX_PTHREAD_SEMANTICS=1 -D_TANDEM_SOURCE=1 -DHAVE_DLFCN_H=1
 -DLT_OBJDIR=\".libs/\" -I. -I../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv
 -I../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/../include -D_GNU_SOURCE
 -Wall -Wextra -fno-exceptions -I./../libstdc++-v3/include
 -I./../libstdc++-v3/include/mingw32
 -I../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/../libstdc++-v3/libsupc++
 -Wl,-u_vtable_map_vars_start,-u_vtable_map_vars_end -g -O2 -MT
 vtv_rts.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/vtv_rts.Tpo
 -c ../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/vtv_rts.cc
 -DDLL_EXPORT -DPIC -o .libs/vtv_rts.o
../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/vtv_rts.cc:126:22: fatal error:
 winternl.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
make[4]: *** [vtv_rts.lo] Error 1

Given that Microsoft themselves say that <winternl.h> declares APIs
which are internal to Windows itself, are undocumented, and may not be
stable across Windows versions, I have no intention of pursuing any
solution for making this optional feature available; I will simply
build with '--disable-libvtv', per attached specification.

- --
Regards,
Keith.

Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
Key fingerprint: C19E C018 1547 DE50 E1D4 8F53 C0AD 36C6 347E 5A3F
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)

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Re: Import libraries without DLL in GCC 5.3.0 distro

revelator

Hmm i wonder if it even uses any of the internal api functions from that header ?, at one time this header was also littered all over the place in winpthreads but turned out it did not even use it.


Den 27-04-2016 kl. 00:40 skrev Keith Marshall:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/04/16 19:08, ralph engels wrote:
If built on linux with a crosscompiler targetting mingw using 
--enable-vtable-verify the exports get built correctly.
Nope.  It just stops the entire build, stone dead:

libtool: compile:
 /home/keith/src/mingw/gcc-build/gcc-5.3.0-mingw32-cross/./gcc/xgcc
 -B/home/keith/src/mingw/gcc-build/gcc-5.3.0-mingw32-cross/./gcc/
 "-DPACKAGE_NAME=\"GNU Vtable Verification Runtime Library\""
 -DPACKAGE_TARNAME=\"libvtv\"
 -DPACKAGE_VERSION=\"1.0\"
 "-DPACKAGE_STRING=\"GNU Vtable Verification Runtime Library 1.0\""
 -DPACKAGE_BUGREPORT=\"\"
 -DPACKAGE_URL=\<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.gnu.org/software/libvtv/\">"http://www.gnu.org/software/libvtv/\"
 -DPACKAGE=\"libvtv\" -DVERSION=\"1.0\" -DSTDC_HEADERS=1
 -DHAVE_SYS_TYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_STAT_H=1 -DHAVE_STDLIB_H=1
 -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_MEMORY_H=1 -DHAVE_STRINGS_H=1
 -DHAVE_INTTYPES_H=1 -DHAVE_STDINT_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1
 -D__EXTENSIONS__=1 -D_ALL_SOURCE=1 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1
 -D_POSIX_PTHREAD_SEMANTICS=1 -D_TANDEM_SOURCE=1 -DHAVE_DLFCN_H=1
 -DLT_OBJDIR=\".libs/\" -I. -I../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv
 -I../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/../include -D_GNU_SOURCE
 -Wall -Wextra -fno-exceptions -I./../libstdc++-v3/include
 -I./../libstdc++-v3/include/mingw32
 -I../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/../libstdc++-v3/libsupc++
 -Wl,-u_vtable_map_vars_start,-u_vtable_map_vars_end -g -O2 -MT
 vtv_rts.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/vtv_rts.Tpo
 -c ../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/vtv_rts.cc
 -DDLL_EXPORT -DPIC -o .libs/vtv_rts.o
../../../src/gcc-5.3.0/libvtv/vtv_rts.cc:126:22: fatal error:
 winternl.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
make[4]: *** [vtv_rts.lo] Error 1

Given that Microsoft themselves say that <winternl.h> declares APIs
which are internal to Windows itself, are undocumented, and may not be
stable across Windows versions, I have no intention of pursuing any
solution for making this optional feature available; I will simply
build with '--disable-libvtv', per attached specification.

- -- 
Regards,
Keith.

Public key available from keys.gnupg.net
Key fingerprint: C19E C018 1547 DE50 E1D4 8F53 C0AD 36C6 347E 5A3F
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)

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Applications Manager provides deep performance insights into multiple tiers of
your business applications. It resolves application problems quickly and
reduces your MTTR. Get your free trial!
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